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Re: language quibbles

On 2016-08-17 17:59, Katsumi Yamaoka wrote:
> Hi Boruch,


> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 00:57:10 -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> > line 38: "Default directory used to save pages and those image files."
> >>> "Default directory for saved pages and their image files."
> Thanks.  I've installed it.
> > Alternatively, you could get away with not using a possessive pronoun
> > (those/their).
> I see.  But I didn't remove "their" because the `w3m-save-image'
> command, that saves image data one by one, does not use this
> variable as the default value.

Oh. Ok, I looked in `w3m-download' (w3m.el), and do see now that it
uses variable `w3m-default-save-directory', and that got me thinking:

1] It seems to me the two variables, `w3m-default-save-directory' and
   `w3m-save-buffer-directory' should be merged into a single variable
   common to both functions.

2] The default value for those variables should not be "~/.w3m". That
   folder, in my opinion, is already the victim of bad design by w3m
   itself in that too much clutter is stashed there instead of in
   sub-folders, ie. w3mcache*, w3msrc*, w3mtmp*.

   Possibly better would be either "~/Downloads" or "~/Documents",
   both of which are standard and generic folders created
   automatically by many operating systems.

   To be an even better cross-platform and standards-compliant
   program, emacs-w3m could take note of the "xfreedesktop" standard
   on the issue. Xfreedesktop has a specification for defining
   "user-dirs" (see `man(1) xdg-user-dir'), such as:


   It seems to me to that the current default leads to needless
   fragmentation od user data among various folders. What I mean is
   that a user can be expected to use more than one browser, and
   downloaded html/images should not be scattered based upon the
   borwser used, but on their nature as downloaded data.

> > lines 50-51: "You can view the saved page in the \"Next Page\".
> "Next Page" means a page that will appear by the manu-bar button
> or the tool-bar button named "Forward to Next Page" (the command
> `w3m-view-next-page').  So, should it be more definite something
> like this?
> You can click the "Forward to Next Page" button on the menu-bar
> or the tool-bar to view the saved page.

What's confusing me is:

1] The user is saving the currently displayed buffer, so why advance
   to the next page in the history ring, `w3m-next-page', when she is
   already looking at the buffer now?

2] I may have mentioned before that I use emacs-nox, which in this
   generation might make my setup unusual. My environment has no
   modern tool-bar or even old-fashioned menu-bar. As for re-wording
   the sentence, I would put it in "passive voice" format and refer to
   the underlying function and maybe even its default keybinding. That
   might be good enough even for people who use emacs solely in GUI
   mode because the function name `w3m-next-page' is so similar to the
   button name. Maybe:

      "The saved page will be added to the history list, and be
       viewable using `w3m-next-page'.

> > Note that saved pages will get shown as what you see in emacs-w3m."
> >>> I don't understand what this means
> Some web sites send html data so as to be suitable for an
> HTTP/1.0 compliant old web browser, that is, emacs-w3m.  So, if
> viewing the saved data by a modern browser, the appearance will
> not necessarily be the same as the modern browser that connects
> to the site directly.

That brings up an idea... But first: based upon your explanation, I
would suggest deleting the sentence as unnecessary and obvious,
because the user is downloading what she is seeing, which is a web
page presented in emacs-w3m.

The idea that came to mind is for a command to reload the current page
using a different user-agent, in order to possibly retreive alternate
content. That would address what seems to me to be the concern
underlying the sentence "Note that saved pages will get shown as what
you see in emacs-w3m.", to wit, that the user might be "missing out"
by not using 'Internet Explorer' or 'Chromium'. Personally, I wouldn't
be interested in such a feature, but I'm old, and am the type to be
using emacs-nox, so I probably don't represent the "average" user

> P.S. The emacs-w3m mailing list seems to be down now.  I'll ask
> the maintainer for repairing it.

Great. In the past, I noticed more than once a latency >12 hours, but
wasn't sure if it wasn't because my submissions were waiting to be
reviewed before being posted.

Some comments, such as spelling or grammar corrections, may just be
clutter to post to the list. Are you the person to whom I should
directly send that type of feedback, or do you prefer that even that
be posted publicly? OTOH, what I mentioned above about the
xfreedesktop standard maybe should be posted to the list because even
if emacs-w3m doesn't adopt the idea, there is educational value in
teaching / reminding the existence of the standard.


1] Here are some more proof-reading feedback from my semi-random browsing
of the codebase:

1.1] w3m-lnum.el line 1013: change "poing" to "point"

1.2] w3m.el line 5934: change "NO-CHACHE" to "NO-CACHE"

1.3] w3m-lnum-goto. The description of this function includes the
     sentence "0 corresponds to location url." Why is this a feature?
     The user is already displaying the URL in the buffer, and can
     reload the page using 'R'. Am I misunderstanding its meaning?

1.4] w3m-lnum-view-image, w3m-lnum-goto

     I found usage of these features confusing, and had originally
     written four long bug reports before I realized how I was
     expected to use them. My confusion was that the documentation led
     me to believe that once I type 'I/F', entering an index number
     would be the *only* way to perform the action. I wrongly presumed
     that entering 'I/F' a second time would toggle the page state
     back to normal. This confusion is supported by the response the
     functions make to pressing a non-numeric key: they remove
     numbering from links that don't have that non-numeric character.

     As to documentation, I suggest the following:

1.4.1] w3m-lnum-goto

       "Display lnum-style numbering for links, images and forms, and
       then prompt the user in the mini-buffer for which to open or

       The user response may be an lnum number or may be any unique
       substring of the text label of the link, image or form. In all
       cases, the lnum numbering will dynamically update in the buffer
       as one types one's response in the minibuffer."

1.4.2] w3m-lnum-view-image

       "Display the image under point in the external viewer.

       If no image at point, display lnum-style numbering for images
       and then prompt the user in the mini-buffer for which to view.

       The user response may be an lnum number or may be any unique
       substring of the text label of the image. In either case, the
       lnum numbering will dynamically update in the buffer as one
       types one's response in the minibuffer.

       `w3m-content-type-alist' defines the external viewer and
       parameters to be used for any mimetype. `w3m-image-viewer'
       defines the default image-viewer."

2] Feature request: w3m.el: line 1139: Please define variable
   `w3m-image-viewer' using "defcustom".

3] Suggestion: Variable `w3m-content-type-alist' could use external
   program "xdg-open". As mentioned earlier in this already too-long
   e-mail, there exists a cross-platform xfreedesktop standard to try
   to assist developers of individual programs to offer users
   consistency *between* programs. One part of the standard offers a
   framework and programs "xdg-mime" and "xdg-open" to define and
   respect a user's preferences across all that user's programs. Thus,
   if a user changes a preference from within "nautilus" file manager,
   or from within any other program, that change would respected by
   all other programs that are compliant with the xfreedesktop

   An example of a command-line program that uses this standard to
   great effect is "Midnight Commander".

   You know what? It just occurred to me that emacs, GNU, and the FSF
   may have issued policy or guidance about xfreedesktop. I've already
   spent way too long on this e-mail to be motivated to check today.

Finally, if you want any of the content of this email posted to the
list for wider discussion or for reference, I have no objection. If
you want me to do so, let me know which sections. If you want to do so
yourself, that's also fine with me.

Kind regards,

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